Re: Conn vs. King sousaphones


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Posted by Rob P-M on August 14, 2002 at 09:49:42:

In Reply to: Conn vs. King sousaphones posted by Eric Howard on August 14, 2002 at 07:23:13:

As to BBb sousaphones:

The King 2350 (0ld model # 1250, 1250A) is essentially unchanged since about 1930. Weighs about 22 or 23 lbs (depending whether a 24" or 26" bell - 26" is now standard, but 24" was very common, if not standard, in the 30's). It has a .687" bore. Kings are known for their almost sweet sound and good intonation. The can be overblown fairly easily, but can put out a good volume of sound in the hands of a reasonably skillful player. Before WWII, a fair number were made with four valves as model # 1251. Mouthpiece selection for a King (whether the 2350 or the upright bass 2341) is important. They used to ship with a King 26, a no longer made mouthpiece that was more of a cup shaped design than is currently fashionable here. They are now shipped (IIRC) with a Bach 24AW clone or a Bach 18 clone. Very different mouthpieces. Myself, I do not like either the 18 or 24AW for a 2350/2341, rather preferring a Schilke Helleberg II or my old King 26.

The Conn 20K dates to the mid-1930's. It is an overall larger horn with a .734" bore and the offset short action piston valves also used on the 2XJ series of horns (which had a large .770" bore). Its predecesssor was the 38K, which was identical except for the short action valves, and with four valves the 38K became a 40K. A very few four valve 20Ks, with the model designation 24K were made. A 20K or 38K would weigh about 26-28lbs. As with the King, the 26" bell is now standard, but before WWII, 24" bells were also common. The 38K design dates to around WWI as the "Sousaphone Grand" and had a 24" bell as standard in the 20's, with 26" an option. The big Conns have a larger, more "organ-like" sound than the Kings, they speak very easily and are very hard to overblow. In their best examples, a 40K or a 24k will play every bit as well as a first rate BBb upright tuba, and were widely used in radio and recording in the 20's and 30's. Many of them do have the flat F that Joe mentioned, but most players adjust it by lipping pretty well. I always thought it was important to use the right mouthpiece on a 20K, which for me was the stock Conn 2 - essentially a Helleberg 7B with a different outside shape.

Interestingly, in the mid 1930's, King made a variant of the 2350/1250 designed (I think) to compete more directly with the Conn 38K/20K: the 1250B. It had the same bore through the valves as the 1250A, but became larger through the post-valve branches and had almost the same bore at the bell junction as a Conn 38K/20K. I've never seen one in the flesh, and I don't think they sold well.

The largest sousaphones in general production were the King Giant 1270/71 (.750 bore, 28" bell, 30lbs) and the Conn Jumbo 48K (4 valves, not sure what the number was for the 3 valve version)(.770 bore, 28" or 30" bell, 32+lbs) and the big Holton. I've played a King Giant 1270 with a 28" bell, and it played more like a Conn 20K than a typical King, but the sound was still 'sweeter' like King. I liked that horn very much.




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