Posted by Klaus on July 24, 2002 at 09:21:12:
In Reply to: Re: Re: Re: Cimbasso poll posted by Mike Johnson on July 24, 2002 at 07:30:35:
Thank you for the reference. I certainly will believe reports from Steve Wick. Is he actually the son of Denis of trombone fame?
It might be known, that I have a soft spot for valve trombones, even if most of these are very limited by their construction (my first two, band owned, instruments were Eb rotary alto valve bones from Schmidt and I. K. Gottfried of Copenhagen).
I have yet to meet a tenor valve trombone of a sufficient bore:
My two Mahillon piston Bb bones of a 11.95mm (.470) bore and with a 180mm (7.086") bell flare are similar to the instruments, that I as lately as in 1970 have seen used as symphonic trombones in a Spanish orchestra. They are very far from modern symphonic ideals even when played through mouthpieces (DW 4BS, DW 6BS, DW 7CS), that are somewhat larger than the original ones. You might count me in as the weak factor, but I am fairly strong, when it comes to fullness of sound.
My Forza (stencil version of the B&S second-line Weltmeister brand) rotary tenor bone with a 12.70mm (.500) bore and 235mm (9 1/4") flare is a bit fuller, when I play it with the Yeo signature bassbone mpc. Still it has no symphonic fullness to it.
What I intend to say is, that even if trombones generally are of a smaller bore than their baritone/euph equivalents without suffering from stuffiness, then one should take into consideration, that valve trombones should not, as they traditionally have been, be of an smaller bore than even their slide equivalents.
The F cimbasso, told of in the 2nd edition of Bevan's book, that a decade or so ago was constructed in Vienna had a 6 rotaries valve section with exactly the same bore proportions as its 6 valve tuba equivalent. I find that an interesting concept.
Some works by the late Verdi and by Puccini are often discussed: should the lowest brass part be played by a cimbasso or by a tuba? My fear is, that if the cimbassos offered are not of a bore, that compensates for the tendencies towards stuffiness inherent in valves, then the tuba will be chosen by default. Or one of the still better F contrabass slide trombones now available might be preferred.
One of the few points, that might emerge clearly from this long posting is, that I consider cimbassos as bass or contrabass valve trombones.
Anyway these lines just express my personal opinions on a topic, that happens to have my interest.
Klaus