Posted by Rob P-M on July 15, 2003 at 09:07:51:
In Reply to: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rob PM - Identify this Old Conn? posted by Rick Denney on July 14, 2003 at 13:29:07:
This is becoming tiresome. If this all seems confusing, it is because the literature is confusing:
I have already described what's in Catalog C as 3XJ, which is an early 1920's catalog. It also lists several CC upright and recording bell basses: the special "Phonograph Bass" built for August Helleburg and the 8XJ basses, which were front action, some upright (Symphony Bass), some recording bell models (Symphony Grand Bass). The Orchestra Grand Bass is not in Catalog C. The 2XJ series of "Monster BBb Basses" starts with 26J as a 3 valve top action low pitch upright bell horn with the tuning slide in the leadpipe. That series continues through 33J, the high pitch 4 valve front action. In this catalog, with the basses, almost always, odd and even numbers are paired by pitch: e.g. 32J (4 front action valves, upright fixed bell, BBb low pitch) and 33J (4 front action valves, upright fixed bell, BBb high pitch). Low pitch is A=440; high pitch is A=457.
In a December 1924 Conn Basses specialty catalog, there is the illustration that Stauffer published of the 34J (BBb) and 36J (CC) Orchestra Grand Bass. In that catalog 26J is a three valve top action upright fixed bell horn, same as in Catalog C. No high pitch horns are listed in this catalog.
In a 1931/32 Conn Basses specialty catalog, 36J is shown as a front action four valve BBb jumbo bore horn with a 26" recording bell. 26J is the same as in the 1924 bass catalog and catalog C. 80J is now listed (but not illustrated) as a 3 valve, smaller bore version of the 36J.
A word about bore sizes in these catalogs. The "large" bore sized appears to be the .734 well know best today from the 20K Sousaphone (successor to the 38K sousaphone grand). The really large bore is the .770 bore Conn calls "jumbo". Again, today we know this from the few Jumbo sousaphones that survive and from the Orchestra Grand Bass. The big bell front 36J of 1931/32 is also described as being of jumbo size.
In the 1934-5 Basses catalog, the 20J with short action pistons has been introduced, not the rest of the 2XJ series as we know them now. The 3XJ horns are similar to the 1931/32 catalog, but more variants are listed.
By the 1937 full Catalog, we have a full complement of 2XJ series, all recording bell): 20J (3 short top valves), 22J (3 short front valves), 24J (4 short top valves) and 26J (4 short front valves).
Sometime thereafter, but in any event by 1957 when it appears in a catalog I have, Conn resurrected the odd number models for the 2XJ series to denote upright bells. (as in 21J, 23J, 25J and 27J -- of which we sometimes see 21J and 25J horns for sale).
So, we have at least TWO known variants of the 36J designation: the 36J Orchestra Grand in CC, and the 36J Recording Bass in BB. We have TWO known variants of 26J: the 26J fixed bell 3 v top action of the twenties (or earlier) and early thirties and the 26J recording bell 4 short v top action of the mid-30's through the 1960s. We have two known variants of many odd numbers -- it can mean a high pitch horn in the '20s or an upright bell from sometime after 1937. There are also at least 2 variants of 80J: a four valve CC front action and a 3 valve top action smaller bore horn. (i.e. .734 instead of .770?)
To make matters worse, before the 1950s, the catalogs contain primarily illustrations rather than photographos of instruments. Thus, while obvious differences such as whether the lead pipe is in the tuning slide or not, can be readily noted, small differences in branch wrap are not always easy to discern. For example: if one looks at the illustrations in Catalog C of the BBb "Monster" helicon and the 38K BBb Sousaphone Grand, one might thing there are differences in some of the branch wraps, how open the loops are. The 38K is identical to the modern 20K except for the short valves and standardization by the late 30's on a 26" bell (early grands had 22" bells, then 24" and finally 26"). But, I have a pre-1920 Monster BBb helicon and an early 50's 20K. The wraps are identical. except the flatening of the valve ports -- the slides are even interchangeable. So, I have become somewhat skeptical of the absolute accuracy of the illustrations.