Posted by Christian on June 18, 2003 at 19:00:28:
In Reply to: Six Valve F-Tubas posted by Thinking on June 18, 2003 at 17:46:09:
What you'll see around:
new:
Mira 181
PT-16
PT-11
PT-9 (rarely, this is the present day version of the B&S Symponie smaller bore B&S)
the Culbertson Apollo
As far as prices go, call the Brasswind or Dillon Music for Mira or Culbertson prices, call Custom Music for the PT-*. Baltimore brass has a used PT-9 in their used section right now. I'm sure Tony Clements from http://www.lowbrasswerks.com/ could get you an Alex or Lee Stofer could order you a fabulous 6 valve 4/4 Rudolf Meinl.
You don't see used 6 valve Fs for sale nearly as often as 5 valved ones. That may be the fact that there just aren't as many 6 bangers in the US as there are 5 valve horns.
When I have seen them up for sale, here's what i remember:
older 6-rotor MW (relatively often)
6-rotor older Rudis (rarely)
B&S Symponie (very rarely, people tend to hold on to these)
Alexander (rarely, but Dale Phelps has an interesting one for sale right now)
You can custom order other MW or Rudi or Cerveny or Alexander (and probably other) horns with 6 valves but you pay for it up front and it's typically not returnable. You will want to call some tuba sellers about this (don't take my word for it). Six valve Fs don't seem to be as popular in this country as in others. Tuba sellers will stock what sells.
Valve systems:
Typical valves 1-4 for all of these, but they will vary with valves 5 and 6.
1. There is the 4 right hand valve + 2 left hand valve arrangement. MW, Rudolf Meinl, and Mirafone will have the flat half step valve for the left index finger and the flat whole step valve for the left middle finger. The only MW exception that i know of is the MW46SLP.
2. B&S and Culbertson Apollo (also B&S) have the 4 right hand valves and 2 for the left. However, these have the flat whole step valve for the left index finger and the flat half step for the middle finger. That's just like having valves 1 and 2 when the 4th valve is down. This makes a little more sense to me. The MW46SLP also has this config. I've seen a pic somewhere of a Rudi done this way.
3. The Apollo and Mirafone 181 are available with 5 valves for the right hand and one (the flat half step) for the left.
4. Rarely, you will see a 5 + 1 configuration where the 5th valve is a quint valve (plays Bb below the staff with 5th valve by itself) and a flat half step for the left hand. The MW Hilgers models can be ordered this way as can one of Cerveny's models. I have an older Cerveny with this setup. It's quite nice.
5. Even more rarely, you will see a 3 + 3 arrangement, three valves for each hand. I think this is called the Vienna system (??). I don't remember what the intervals for each valve are.
tuba sellers:
http://www.dillonmusic.com/
http://www.wwbw.com/
http://www.custommusiccorp.com/
http://members.aol.com/bbctuba/
http://www.lowbrasswerks.com/
Random opinions: I think the bore of the Mira 181 is too big. But then again, I think most modern day F tubas are too big. The 4/4 Rudi F is VERY nice. The older B&S Symphonie F tubas can vary from ok to absolutely phenomenal. The Culbertson Apollo is obscenely large.
Hope this helps,
Christian Klein