Posted by Klaus on May 10, 2001 at 14:51:01:
In Reply to: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fourth Valve on Side posted by Chuck(G) on May 10, 2001 at 12:54:33:
As Chuck does, I see this as a matter of terms. If not only, then mostly of terms.
As I remember my source, which I of course can not find right now, Sax made a whole family of brasses alternating between the pitches of Eb and Bb down the range.
With one remarkable exception: the tenor/bass pitch of Bb had two saxhorns. The Baryton en Si bemol and the Basse en Si bemol.
The first was renamed the Baritone after taking the trip over the Channel to England. The second getting the term of the Euphonium after the same trip..
During the almost 150 years since then brasses have undergone one common development: they have got larger bores and bells.
Yet, the present day .547/9" Sovereign baritone is still a tenortype (vocally spoken) instrument compared to the baritonetype (still vocally spoken) original Saxhorn basse.
Seen in this light the euphonium now is just an English term for a present day instrument, that has developed logically from a member of the Saxhorn family.
Whereas I do agree with Chuck in seeing the Brit style baritone as a cornet like tenor phenomenon, I do not endorse the viewpoint of the flugelhorn being an equivalent to the euphonium.
The flugelhorn is, with a few exceptions from DEG and Getzen, a narrow bore to large bell instrument, whereas the euph is a large bore to large bell.
With a good model equipped with a relevantly large mouthpiece it is almost impossible for a human being to push a euph beyond its limits.
Whereas the flugelhorn is mostly a lyrical instrument. Even if being very adequate for that purpose, flugelhorns get a somewhat shrieky sound quality when pushed dynamically.
As for the modern Courtois catalogue comprising both saxhorns and euphs I this as a clever marketing measure. The original Saxhorn also took a development in France. Only not the same as the renamed British euph did.
When a French company works at such a high standard, as does Courtois, why should it not make a serious attempt to grab a share of the large Brit brass band market? Hence Saxhorns and euphs in the same catalogue. And I am quite sure one could find a book editor marketing French as well as English dictionaries.
Of course these thoughts are only personal interpretations of mine.
Klaus