Posted by Superbone impressions on October 06, 2000 at 03:52:19:
In Reply to: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Valve trombone posted by Gus Pratt on October 05, 2000 at 19:36:45:
I've reproduced below a (wordy) impression of the Superbone...
For those who can't be bothered with all that reading, my major point/gripe is that a non standard-slide of any type is terrible for whatever "slide technique" you may have... and as mentioned above, no "real" trombonist would touch such non-standard slides with the proverbial 10footer...
Anyone wanna buy a Superbone?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Yes, dubbed the "superbone" (Holton), I procured one of these beasts... I call it "Frankenbone". It is actually designed so that it is possible to operate the 3 valves with the left hand, and the hand slide with the RH. I find it more practical to use the RH for both, changing at will, or staying put.
The Superbone's major problems:
1. A bore that is smaller than my Yamaha student model tenor trombone - as a result of being designed by and for trumpet players.
2. The most disconcerting thing (for me) has been that the position of the hand-slide is further away from your body than on a "normal" trombone. First position feels like second, etc., and the relationship between the bell rim and the slide is also a bit of a shock (not that THAT should be one's method of finding slide positions!)
3. As a result of (2) my slide technique is worse on the Superbone than on a regular bone. And seventh position is into-the-next-room unreachable!!
4. Notes played on the valves are marginally stuffier and more brittle than notes played with valves open, on the slide (as would be expected). BUT notes played with valves open, on the slide are still purdy darn brittle and stuffy!!
Its Pluses:
I have developed a left hand hold with the slide unlocked but held with the pinkie, and I am able to use the slide as a "pitch shifter" to flatten sharp valve notes (e.g. 1 & 3, 1/2/3. and others). Keeping the slide unlocked means I can change relatively quicky between slide or valves.
What would an instrument of this type need to REALLY kick (AT)ss ??
a.k.a. "my wish-list"(?)
Dunno quite how it would be done, but the slide positions HAVE to feel normal, and seven of them, not six, not five. Otherwise there is absolutely no point having an operable hand-slide, you might as well just build a regular valve trombone.
The valve section needs to have a resonable bore -- a bore at LEAST commensurate with the bore of the rest of the horn. Not humungous -- no-one would be takin' THIS horn to the Symphony! But it would be nice if it could be part of a big band 'bone section (without TOO much sneering or stigma).
Why bother?:
When I want to discuss complex philosophical ideas (or win an argument) I speak English. Valves are my "English" as a professional tuba player. Slide is my second language and (particularly as an improviser) I have to constantly re-think and modify/simplify what I "say" on the slide.
Sometimes that is OK, but generally, particluarly improvisationally*, I want to be as free to express my ideas of the moment, and interact musically, as possible!
* Have I just invented a new word?
I thought the Superbone would be an improvement over my regular (so-so) Amati valve trombone, and also allow me to use the slide here and there (to fool people :-), keep my slide hand in, fulfill trombone cliche roles where required), but on gigs where I would not want to ONLY be playing the slide trombone. Generally, in terms of sound, response, etc., the Superbone has been a bit of a disappointment (and I was NOT expecting a Bach 36, believe me!)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Jim Self's website, he has pictured a bass trombone (with usual F attachment) plus a valve section he had custom-made by Larry Minnick. Perhaps this is headed in the right direction. It is hard to tell from the photo whether or not the slide positions would have the similar "odd" feeling they have on the Superbone.
The problem to be overcome (IMHO) is fitting the valves in between leadpipe and hand-slide, whilst still retaining a relatively ordinary hand-slide position.
Whew long post, sorry !!