Army Band Tubists compare BAT's


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Posted by Mike Forbes on July 18, 2001 at 18:33:50:

Has anyone ever wondered how various tubas sound out-front regardless of how they play? This was the burning question in my mind as I search for a large CC Contrabass Tuba. So the tubists of the U.S. Army Ceremonial Band “Pershing’s Own” got together Tuesday afternoon and did a little experiment in the Major Studio of Brucker Hall on Ft. Myer. We placed a screen up on the stage, and I set up 6 horns to be tested--alone, then with local Bass Trombonist, Kevin Rigoti. Many thanks to those who helped supply the horns for the experiment!! The horns acquired were generously offered from other tubists in the band, the Army Band itself, Matt Walters from Dillon Music, and Dave Fedderly of BBC. The contenders, all LARGE CC’s with fairly consistent intonation, were:

PT-6 (the only rotory valve horn--courtesy of the U.S. Army Band (and Jon Voth))
Price: the Army Band just got one from Custom for $11,000

PT-6P (courtesy of Tom Bratten)
Price: like the PT-6, though there are two being offered on this post page for $7800 (Jerome Stover) and $8000 (“Jonathon”).

Meinl Weston 2165 (courtesy of Matt Walters and Dillon Music)
Price: $7295, this is a used, unlacquered 6/4 horn.

Meinl Weston 2165 (courtesy of Matt Walters and Dillon Music)
Price: $9895, this is a brand new, silver 6/4 horn.

York (courtesy of David Fedderly of BBC)
Price: $11,000. This is a Rusk Cut horn, with 2165 valve section and new silver plating.

Yorkbrunner (courtesy of the U.S. Army Band (and Ross Morgan)).
Price: I believe Custom sells this for around $16,000 (?).

I played all 6 horns behind the screen so that none of the observers knew what was what. The observers, by the way, were: Jon Voth, Sean Chisham, Mike Eberly, and Aaron Lovely. I used a PT-88 mouthpiece on all instruments for consistency, and didn’t move a slide. Inaccuracies in pitch and “flubbed notes” were discarded as player faults not to be held against the horn.

There were essentially 3 rounds. 1st, I played the following excerpts, one by one on each horn before moving on to the next excerpt:

Descending F Major Scale (2 8ves).
Opening to Meistersinger
Bordogni Etude No. 1
Fountains of Rome
Ride

Then Jon Voth came up and scrambled the order of the instruments and played:
Meistersinger Solo

Then I went back up and played with bass trombonist, Kevin Rigoti, the following:
Lohengrin
Til’
Ride

Finally, the observations (I’m sure you’re all on the edge of your seat!)

Upon my first playing the four observers were split between the York and the unlacquered 2165 (Voth and Lovely for the York, and Chisham and Eberly for the 2165). Following these two horns, the others were more or less put in this order:

3. PT-6P
4. PT-6 (rotor)
5. 2165 (silver)
6. Yorkbrunner

The York seemed to have the roundest, clearest sound, say Voth and Lovely, while Eberly and Chisham maintained that the Meinl had a more “characteristic tuba” sound, the term “color” I think was also used. At first, both seemed to sing in the “cash register” while the York seemed to do better above C, while the Meinl below CC. But one must allow for player inaccuracies. After playing Fountains, it was discovered the lower register of the York could come alive, while the 2165’s upper register still seemed inconsistent.

Upon Voth’s Playing, the York began to more clearly emerge as the leader, with Eberly now beginning to prefer the sound of the York, along with myself and Lovely. Chisham stood fast, enjoying and preferring the characteristic “tuba” sound of the 2165 (unlacquered). The silver 2165, incidentally, seemed to not project as well, almost seeming “woofy” and/or “fuzzy” with its extremely dark sound. The incredibly BRIGHT Yorkbrunner was voted in last place after hearing both Voth and I play it. Now, there is something to be said about this particular Yorkbrunner. As Chisham is an owner of a fairly NEW Yorkbrunner, he contests the band’s York seems to sound and feel quite a bit different from his and other Yorkbrunners that he has encountered. So there may be something else going on there.

The PT-6’s presented quite an interesting discussion. Voth has used the rotor PT-6 for some time (5 years), while preferring its evenness of sound over the piston PT-6P. On this day, however, he played the 2 PT-6’s behind the screen and we all thought that he sounded better, bigger and more in control with better responsiveness on the PT-6P...something particularly odd, as his own (rotor) horn SHOULD have been the best sounding own for him. Alas it was not, though Voth adds that playing 1 rotor horn in a mix of 5 piston horns is an odd sensation as the rotor blows quite differently and takes some getting used to.

Lastly, I played the 6 horns with the bass trombonist so that we may observe the blend. It was here that the York began to emerge as the dominant horn of choice. Though the 2165 unlacquered horn put up a close fight--again, it was these two horns at the top of everyone's list. It turns out that the York tended to support the bass trombone with a contrasting, yet complementary sound, while the Meinl seemed to be almost bass trombone-like in its sound; supplementing, rather than complimenting the bass trombone.

After all the discussions and listening, everyone came up to play the horns and discovered the York to be the easiest to play and best to respond with the PT-6P a close second. The Meinl’s were rough going (even to Chisham who preferred their sound overall), but we all agreed just needed some getting used to. Once a player spends some time with it, it may be just as easy to control and blow as the York. Nonetheless, the most interesting conclusion to be made was that two horns (the York and 2165 (unlacquered)) that seemed so similar out-front, played so very, very differently!

This was a fairly scientific test, but admittedly had its flaws with the variables changing with the player’s unfamiliarity with the horns, the ways that the players blow, and the variety of mouthpieces and excerpts used. But overall, these were our observations. Take from this what you may, and feel free to comment along this string about your own observations about any of these horns, as well as what we could have done differently to more accurately assess the differences in the instruments’ sounds. Thanks again to Matt Walters and David Fedderly in allowing me to try these horns in front of my colleagues. Each of these guys are excellent people to work with, and I must add that though we preferred certain things about certain horns, other player’s discoveries may vary greatly. (There is a whole other issue of BUDGET that affects this test: remember, the 2165 (unlacquered) though very close in sound to the York, is about $3700 cheaper!) Overall, these horns were all EXCELLENT tubas--the cream of the crop from both shops, in my personal opinion. Others may have a differing opinion, and If you are at all interested in any of these horns, please don’t hesitate to stop by Dillon’s or the BBC, and try them yourself.


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