Posted by Wade (long) on October 13, 2003 at 13:45:29:
In Reply to: Re: Re: Xenophobia or ......??? posted by Bill on October 13, 2003 at 09:37:45:
The following is factual; it is not my opinion:
They are there (or here) against the law. They do not have work permits, which require legal entry into the United States.
In the United States, we live by the rule of law. Therefore, according to our laws, they should not have jobs at all, as they are not supposed to be here in the first place. And they are not paying taxes, as they do not file 1040s and all that (you need to be a citizen to have a SSN, which is required when you file). The employers pay these taxes such as FICA and Medicare, etc. Many claim that they "do not know" that they have hired people that have come here against the law (even though they are fully aware of their legal responsibility to confirm this), and by paying these taxes they keep the eyes of the IRS pointed elsewhere. So the only thing that they can get busted for is failing to ensure that these employees are actually US citizens.
The following is a rumor from various media outlets:
The supposed reason for why the US government has been so lax on enforcement of this (and I am not totally sure whether or not I believe it yet) is that so many illegals are having taxes paid from their wages and are unable to file for a refund, so it is a small, safe, guaranteed income to Congress. Again, I am not quite ready to accept that, but I can see it.
The following is merely my opinion (feel free to skip it):
We need to fix this problem, as we have gotten to the point where there are just some jobs that Americans, by and large, are no longer willing to perform. In Austria, they have a large Guest Worker program that seemingly (despite its many social problems) gets these jobs to willing, legal foreigners.
Maybe we need to make it easier for people to get here legally, but only if Mexico replaces that silly, easy-to-forge Consular Card with better identification. This ID issue is a real big one: anyone should be welcome to come here as long as we know who they are and whether or not they are criminals. We have way too many homegrown criminals, so why make the problem worse by letting in more? If someone is not convicted of what we would consider to be a felony, and if they are not wanted for any outstanding offences, then they should be able to come over here to work at any time. But as a Guest Worker, they would not have full rights and privilages, only access to medical care, the right to drive, etc.; no voice in political matters, nor public education, and no family with them. If they want to live and work AND have a family life here, then they must become a citizen.
And they must learn to communicate, too.
This is crucial.
Again:
Knowing who is over here working, allowing them to work without undercutting citizens with a lower wage, taxing them, and telling them that they are guests and that they will only be granted full rights and privileges if they become citizens themselves: this makes sense to me.
I also think that we need to make English our official language. (Don't bother flaming me on this one folks, as I come from a German-speaking family that took the time to learn to speak, read, and write decent English, so I DO know what I am talking about on this one: life here is better if you take the time to learn the lingo.) This language issue has caused major headaches in local governments and public schools.
But until we adopt some official language, we can not expect immigrants to learn to communicate with us by learning to speak that language. When we expect this, we are being somewhat hypocritical. So that ought to be changed as well.
As I stated earlier, I come from an immigrant, German-speaking-at-home family. When my family came to the US, they wanted to be Americans. So they did it legally, learned the lingo, and worked very hard.
I feel that you should not move to another country only to take and not give back. If you want our opportunities, then you should become one of us. If that is unpalatable to you, then create your own opportunities in your native land, or start a revolution like Lech Walesa did in Poland.
Nothing, including opportunity, come free.
If one wants to move to France, they should not go in order to enroll in the giveaway social programs. They should want to be French. They should want to partake of French customs, French values, and the French language.
If one wants to move to Germany, say, to play tuba in an orchestra (to take advantage of a good situation that exists in that country, and was created by the people of that country) then the same should be true. I considered doing just that, as my German is okay, my willingness to conform to German laws and customs is there; but I did not want to stop being an American Citizen.
It was then that I realized that I had no business going over there to try to take without being willing to put back by becoming a German Citizen. So I let that idea go and stayed here to hunt for playing work.
Every single one of the Russian, Chinese, and Central American musicians in my orchestra feels the same way and have become citizens, learned to speak proficiently, and ALL of them vote and pull jury duty. They came here looking for opportunity AS Americans, not just for opportunity alone. They did not ever consider just taking without giving back. This shows character on their part.
That is the way things ought to be, according to my skewed perspective on things.
Gawd, I hate discussing my personal politics. This stuff always causes fights, which I hope that I have not just done.
Wade "blah, blah, blah" Rackley