2341, 191, 1291 BBb & CC & final thought


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Posted by Charlie on December 31, 2002 at 02:15:13:

I have played on many 2341's, 191's in both individual and ensemble playing situations. I have played 1291's BBb's at conventions and in halls and the 1291 CC prototype at Mid West. When I got to play them at conventions I got to play them before anyone was there and in total silence.

The one thing that I did with the 2341 and the 191 is that I took them to a church rehearsal and played both at a 3-hour rehearsal. I played the 2341 first half and then the 191 the second half of rehearsal.

The first thing that happened is when we started playing, after the first song, the 2 french horn players (that have heard me in the ensemble for over a year) turned around and asked where my tuba was. They noticed that there is a sound and a projection difference. We were doing a Christmas program that was about 1 1/2 hours long. I used the same mouthpiece (a Conn Helleberg, throat enlarged) on both tubas and listening in warm up and with the group the 2341 definitely had less projection than the 191. My 191 is gold brass and 5 valve. The depth of sound was less also on the 2341 and I had to literally play harder with the 2341 and louder in the 3 hour rehearsal to match the sound and projection of the 191. Both french horn players turned around when I started using the 191 and told me the difference was clearly definitive and bigger and better with the 191.

After playing both tubas for almost 3 hours total, I personally liked the sound, projection and depth of sound of the 191 over the 2341. I like the piston feel and clarity in the faster passages of the 2341.

The 1291 fixes that and it has a different sound than the 191 but has a full, very projected sound and the clarity of the 2341. It truly is a great tuba and I feel more of a better all around tuba for both small and large groups than the 2341. There is a large price difference as well. If you are on a budget, you cannot and I repeat can not go wrong with the 2341.

I have played Miraphone’s since 1972 when I bought my 186 5V CC in college. I really like the 2341 as to intonation, response but I like the depth and color of the sound better on the 191 and sound to me is very important and what I play and but a tuba for. The 1291 has no intonation issues either as well and has a great sound and projection. I would honestly like to play a 5 valve gold brass 1291 against my 5 valve gold brass 191 and see how they compare. When at Tmea, I stood off and let Markus Theinert play both the 1291 5v and the 191 gold brass 5 valve and the two were even on everything except the 1291 was a little cleaner in fast passages and very close on projection. You could hear a difference but it was slight. To me the 1291 was slightly brighter.


The 191 has a few intonation issues, the D and Db below the staff is the worst 2 notes and there are a few minor other notes that are easily fixed with embouchure and not having to change a slide. The D has to be played 3rd valve and the Db has to be pulled out more if more than a passing note. These are all easily worked with and sound and intonation with an ensemble is incredible with a very full projected sound. The 191 and 1291 sound like a 5/4 to 6/4 but plays like a 4/4 and I have never felt it or the new 1291 were air hogs. They both play incredibly easy at lower volume levels, as does the King 2341. The 2341 played like a 4/4 and sounded like a 4/4 against the 191.

I think that if they were to make the 2341 like the 56J and do the different bores on the valves that would make it a much better tuba. The sound is more American on the King and just not as full in color or volume or projection in my opinion and this was in a church that seated around 2500. The church orchestra had a total of about 30 members with percussion.

The 191 and 1291 both have big full sounds, lots of color and projection, but the 1291 is not incredibly different than the 191 but does have a different sound and is cleaner in faster passages because of the pistons. Both have the same bore and a similar layout.

All of this in my opinion and it is not law or in gold. I am just telling you mine and not trying to put anyone else's down. Opinions are just what they are and nothing more, Take it or leave it.

If I and I mean I, had a smaller budget and wanted a great tuba I'd get the 2341 with an MTS case in a flash and not think twice about it.

If I had the extra money, I would personally buy the 1291 if I liked piston and the 191 if I liked rotor and both in gold brass and 5 valve with an MTS case. The case is great and if you want to take it on a plane, put a towel in the bell, a half deflated basketball and then pump it up tight as a shock absorber and then close the lid, lock it, tape it and take it anywhere. Throw a small bike air pump in your suitcase and a roll of duct tape and you are set. I have never had any bell damage ever.

I bought my first tuba from a tuba teacher/player in his home in Bryan, TX. He was a great gentleman and a hell of a player and taught in the military for over 30 years. Mr. Cullen was his name and I can still see him perfectly in my head and remember my whole afternoon there as if it were yesterday when I bought my tuba there. I base my selling ability today on how he treated me and what he did. He was an unknown and a great teacher and his son was a tuba player that I got to play with in college till his Dad died. His son, Gary Cullen was to this day one of the best tuba players I had ever heard and that was 18 yrs old and was totally privileged to get to play with him as long as I did even losing first chair to him a junior and he a freshman.

A final thought and nothing else to end:
It is a shame why good and great people leave the music business and for all kinds of reasons like Gary Cullen leaving because his Dad died. I can tell you from being in it for 30 years now that it is a business that is a lot of fun, very hard and pays very little and allot of people treat you great and appreciate you and allot treat you like S*** as this board entails and proves in allot of the posts and why I only email opinions if they post email addresses and I rarely post or will post here anymore.

Buying a tuba and playing a tuba should be fun and you should really enjoy it and want to help others feel the same way. It should not matter what kind of tuba or what key tuba you play at all. Not one tuba fits every player or this would be the most boring world and playing and hearing music would be the least thing that would be important to any of us. Go play, have fun and try to make the simplest of music the best musically and stylistically you can and you will hear comments like you have never heard before from people that you never thought ever heard the tuba section play.

Charlie



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